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INTERVIEW WITH LEROY CLARKE
INTERVIEWER: TONY HALL
LOCATION: Leroy's
studio/home in the forests of Mt. Aripo, Trinidad
DATE: August 1985
The
interview begins while Leroy is cooking.
TONY:
You are chatting with me. I hear a
talk in town, in fact not just in town but all over Trinidad that you are the
number one painter in the world.
LEROY:
All over Trinidad? You're very limited
in terms of travel.
TONY:
Well yes I am (laughs)
LEROY:
I hear that I am one of the best in
the world and I kind of agree.
TONY:
You agree?
LEROY:
Yes.
TONY:
How come you're one of the best in the
would, if not the best …
LEROY:
No, I'm not the best I know that. But
I'm one of the best
TONY:
So how come you do have to cook for
yourself?
LEROY:
That's why am one of the best. Most
other things I do for myself. It is about something called individuality and
risk, taking risk and so on, that can build up a sense of being. You can't
really build up a sense of being by being with too many people. You understand?
That is one reason that Trinidad doesn't have a sense of being you know, we are
too much people together. You know what I'm saying?
TONY:
So we should all live in our own
little Aripos?
LEROY:
No, not quite, probably symbolically,
I'm aiming more at symbolism. You see I found that there is this need to taper
off. We are all at the base and one had to step off of the base, in other words
step off of the time, become timeless in the time, come out of the crowd. You
find that from the time you do that, in any one of us, there is, you know, a
problem. For example if you take where we started where I said that I am one of
the best that is a way of me confronting. If you think I'm not one of the best
then we have a fight and I am looking for fight.
They move into the studio and stand before a
large painting
TONY:
Yes, Leroy looking at the paintings I
like what I see and so on, in fact I'm overwhelmed but ahm, I wonder if a
person needs to know the references and the context and so on and understand
the meaning of all the little squigglies and so on before they come to really
like the paintings. I mean take this one here for instance. ..
LEROY:
In the first place for you to look at
what I might call the signature piece of my most important work, El Tucuche,
and use a term like 'squigglies'…
TONY:
But I like it you know.
LEROY:
That's OK, But when you like it from a
'squiggly' prospective or a squiggly understanding it kind of increases a kind
of burden on me. These are not squigglies, we're talking here about rhythms. I
believe that when you look at a painting like El Tucuche for example, this
painting here before us, you will see that there are different rhythms which
are highlighted that suggest different meanings or different aspects of the
mural.
TONY:
It is obvious that I feel that.
LEROY:
Yes you do feel it. I'm just simply
saying that when we say 'squiggly', because of what I am doing, I think it is
very important that people know exactly what I'm about. I am giving little or
no chance for their own interpretations at this point
TONY:
When you say 'their own
interpretations' in terms of how you want them to interpret it you want them to
interpret it that way.
LEROY:
Yes that is my beginning point or my
point of departure. I want people to understand exactly what I'm putting down
there. I don't want them to start with the idea that this is an abstract sort
of thing. This is not a abstract, these images are put down there with precise
meanings it is an epic and I am at the end of this epic and I should know
exactly what they mean and I want people to understand them from that context.
I don't want people to feel that the red is there because I like red. I am not
a butterfly or some other insect or a bee. I know exactly why I put red and the
combination of red with yellow or what have you, these are definite forms. I'm
thinking of years from now when we have understood our own symbolism and we
have a kind of dictionary of it all in a living sense, a living dictionary of
it, it would be very easy for us to look at our arts, whether it be dancing or
music and identify exactly what they are saying so I don't want anybody to be
mistaking what I am doing. What I'm saying right now is we are building,
creating or forming a language. I am very serious about that.
TONY:
What you are saying is that when I look
at this and feel something I am in fact learning about…
LEROY:
I am very serious about that
TONY:
So I will move from squiggly to
rhythm.
LEROY:
Oh yes you will. I mean I'm not
against you thinging but I must also confront your with it.
The interview continues standing in a river
near the house.
TONY:
Leroy listen, we were talking about
the process you say where Trinidadians become acquainted with the icons
becoming acquainted with themselves through understanding the painting even
though they may not understand it initially. But do you think. that way out
here you can be part of that process? Don't you think you should be in the
community and actively working on it? Why this isolation?
LEROY:
I believe that if you want truly to
test one's your commitment you should create some problem, created some
distance those who want to find out will arrive here I am tired of carrying
things to people.
TONY:
So the isolation is an active part of
the same process, the knowing of self…
LEROY:
Very well, in terms of becoming one
has to separate oneself from the crowd, the mob, and leave that and go into the
bush. As a matter of fact when we go back into some of those classical dramas
we understand the protagonist, that that is exactly what he has to do. But in
us is that adventure, that individuality, is just that when we go down
Frederick Street* and Independence Square* there is less of it. Less and less.
The more we become part of a political party the more we are less of it. The
more we become a civil servant or a member of a union we are less of it. But
out here, I have to defend myself against a number of things and find a way
through the Bush. When I first came in here I must say that I was terrified,
there was no road at all…
TONY:
The bush have the answer.
LEROY:
Well, the bush if you are to use
'bush' symbolically, because you can be in Port of Spain and there is a kind of
bush there. There is a lot of bush and there is no pun intended. (laughs)
TONY:
There is plenty water here
LEROY:
Yes all this is very beautiful and I
really like it. What more you want me to say? You run out of questions or what?
* The centre of the Capital of Trinidad, Port
of Spain
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