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Extract of interview with The
Roaring Lion (RL) by Tony (TH) and Dennis Hall (DH) on Late Night Lime 1990
TH
Lion, let's get right down to it.
Let's go. Welcome, welcome to the Lime
- the Lions's Den. Have a seat. First thing's first. I want to get it straight.
Sorry about the little mistake. (Roaring Lions says, 'you're welcome to make
mistakes') I want to know your real name. There seems to be some contention
with this because I don't know if it's true, but doing some research, I came up
with a Norbert Charles - that name came up. Put it straight for me. Then there
is the Rafael Deleon; which is the right one?
RL
Now, in the first place, as I've said before, I didn't grow up with my parents
unfortunately. I grew up with Indian people in San Fernando, but the old lady
who had me after my mother's illness or so had presented me to these Indian
people who wanted me. Her name was Charles, so they were calling me
that, but my right name according to
my birth paper which I discovered later, having met my father is what the old
people say here, makes the man a thief because if you have too many names, they
consider you a thief; you're trying to get away.
My name is Rafael Arius Cairi Llama
Deleon. Well my father’s name was Cairi which he told me meant the name that
they call Trinidad. Llama is some sort of a goat or deer from South America. I
don't know which one of them I am.
TH
So from small you had this kind of feeling; this elegant kind of appearance.
RL
But from fear that I might be styled a thief, I only use Rafael Deleon.
TH
You have too much name yes. So Lion, you are well known in the calypso thing. I
think that probably, you have the most first, the most accomplishments, but I'm
interested first of all in some of the great men that you performed with, some
of the great men you knew in calypso for instance a fellow like Atilla. Give me
an idea of what Atilla was like. As a young fella, I could never see...........
RL
Well, if you permit me to take it in stages - wrap them up in one parcel. I met
quite a lot of them - Cat, The Beginner, Fionel, King Fando. I'm calling
heroes. He is from San Fernando. That's the fellow who made the song,
Ambakaila.
TH
So, he was the man who made Ambakaila. Yuh know any verse or chorus from that
original song.
RL
(Sound of singing). Mih mammy calling mih. You could use any words . (Words in
patois) That was from the time that my mother made me. The ladies might say
that nobody never hit them with wood, but wood means Stickfighting, but Mentor,
the teacher, Moonsey Dailey, the first Indian calypsonian.
I have got a song on Marie Vidal - one
of the greatest ........ that ever took place here in the country. It's right
here in the book. You have Executor - all these fellas were singing together.
You have Mighty Walcott Douglas. He and Atilla started about the same time. You
have beginner; Radio came after, Inveigler. I came just about after Radio and
Beginner.
As we say here. Everything that
happened in Trinidad with the real calypsonians, they recorded it. So the
history of Trinidad can be found in calypsoes.
Now I'm choosing this particular
subject because right now we have something similar. We have the dengue - the
break-back as they call it and we are now calling on people to be very careful
to clean up the place - a sort of health week and to spray and what not.
The first health week they had in
Trinidad was because of the Malaria fever and the same thing was happening and
the Colonial Office ordered that we clean up the place. So what we call the
Borough Council that is now the City Council gave an order to clean up and
throw out whatever you had outside and they will pick it up. In those days,
Belmont was considered a slum - a perfect slum, but Woodbrook was said to be
elite, perhaps not on par with St. Clair, but pretty near to it and Executor
observed within a matter of two weeks after the health week,
Executor sang,
"Malaria fever epidemic in the
land,
Borough Council give their command.
Malaria fever epidemic in the land,
Borough Council give their command.
It was given to the rich and poor
to throw your rubbish before your door.
Belmont was a disgrace,
but Woodbrook run second place."
Mentor, the teacher who, because of
what was happening with the working class people. We had a lot of quarrelling
in those days with Captain Cipriani defending us and Huggins making it his duty
every time an effort was made, to boycott us and he sang "Time will come
again in this colony. Time will come again in this colony. Our Captain vote
working men eight hours a day in every angle, in every way. Mr. Huggins
opposing the people of this colony." That was Mentor, That was 1929.
I'm trying to get the real facts
because I feel that the viewers out there would like to know. These singers
which I am telling you about were heroes; they all were, but when it comes to
singing calypso, they all made a mark; there's no doubt about it, but in actual
fact Atilla and myself are the ones who started the ball rolling as ambassadors
and pioneers and we are responsible really for putting the calypso where it is
- I, more than Atilla because while Atilla was a shy fellow, I did most of the
travelling and because of that I was able to do research, to
lecture....................
.In 1933, the calypsonians really
started to move because Rahamut and Company of San Fernando, after all the
other people that we had been to, asking to try and push the sale, it took an
Indian - a businessman - who sponsored an excursion to Grenada, Barbados and
St. Vincent. We left here on one of the lady boats and he paid for everything.
Having sung in Grenada and St.
Vincent, we spent thirteen days in Barbados. From then, we started giving shows
all over - Bermuda, Antigua. I've been to every island in the Caribbean and
sang in most of them including Martinique..
War is a last lap in calypso. It is
the combination of a calypso show and it's not bound to be sung at all,
although people came to like it so much, that they would make sure that you
sung it, but it's not something that you must do. So, calypso cannot be
equated; it's an entirely different thing.
What I was really going to tell you is
that it's no use to really make a fuss about war because all calypsonians did
not sing on war. War is not considered calypso as I say, but the most important
thing is there are two names that stand out. One is a Warlord calypsonian -
that is a fellow who sang both calypso and war and a Warlord period singing war
and he programmed himself like a computer with verses and would sing both night
and day easily. It became accepted in the tent and it's not until the thirties
that people began to make it a must not to leave until the calypsonians sang a
few verses of war.
So what I am trying to say is that the
importance that you are trying to give it is sort of outshining, but that isn't
true because people who don't know would preach that to the people. That is why
I want to get out certain facts to the public. It's not true at all.
A Warlord would come in and sing all
day, all night. He is like a computer.
If you read Atilla's book or the book
"Lilliput" or the article by that man who was the columnist in New
York, they used to say that I'm an experimentalist because I always came up
with something different. Whereas the calypsonian at the time would sing a
verse on a particular song like
"No, no, no, no. Tell them I
say no; that my answer is no.
No, no, no, no. Tell them I say no. That my answer is no.
They may come with their grand preparation.
No, no, no, no.
No consolation where there's grief and pain and sad meditation."
Incidentally it's a traditional war
verse - a calling for war. Well, one by one would go up. Well let us assume
they would call my name after that verse. I would go up, but you would notice
that this is where my style would be different. (Giving an example of how he
would sing).
You see, I built that style. The
others were accustomed to that slow style. If you notice, my singing even; my
calypsoes were different. So that was my style. I didn't copy anybody.......
Maybe because I'm a musician and I know chords and different things like that
and maybe because I was influenced by different types of music.
When you singing calypso, you wouldn't
have found that most of the calypsoes is that sort of tempo, like for instance,
if I was singing All Day, All Night Miss Mary-Ann.
Sound of singing All Day, All Night
Miss Mary-Ann.
Now, I wrote that on St. Peter's day.
That was in 1941, but it didn't get public until 1945. I went down to St.
Peter's fete and the fellows were drinking and the fellows were saying
"Lion, what you have for next year" I had nothing and my mind just
run on that.
(Singing of Miss Mary-Ann again).
But, then lots of people put words to
them and I have lots of different types of words.
They sold a quarter of a million
within three months, but it was in my tent he sung it and I was the publisher
of it, so I had a share in the business. Atilla and I published the booklet
with it so we became the publishers. We would draw in this favour because lots
of Americans started to claim the melody.
Belasco claimed it and lots of others
claimed it. Belasco said that he recorded it in 1901, but the truth is that
that is an old French song. It was sung in the last century. So eventually, if
we had considered to lay claim too, they would have declared it public domain,
so we withdrew and he put in a claim for the words.
TH
Tell me about Invader. What did he bring to calypso?
RL
By 1945, the calypso was already all over the world. Fellows like Peter Pitt,
Six Ten, Fido Blake and all these fellows when they went away, it was so easy
that all one had to do was learn a calypso and call yourself Lord Apple or Lord
Pommecythere and make money to help you. So nobody brought anything; it was
already there. It was on pictures all over the world, even subtitles. Happy Go
Lucky was the first of them. Tiger Bay was another. Then all on T.V. It was all
about, in Albert Hall. It was in America; in Canada. There was a calypsonian
called Caresser in Canada, who was doing well with my song, Ugly Woman and all
sorts of thing.
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